Posts by Open mind

35

You Believe in God? Who cares?

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

i think this is a good thread to post feelings about the various evolution/creation and atheism/theism disputes on this discussion board.. i don't really care whether most people believe in god or not.

all i care about is that science keeps doing its job.

most theists are going to contribute almost nothing to the next stage of scientific progress.

Open mind

Hope I can finish this off before proplog2 replies:

Marx said "religion is the opium of the masses" or something like that. I agree. I wish there was a benevolent Sky God just waiting to whisk me into some state of bliss. Problem is, I just don't believe it. But, that's why I chose the username Open Mind and it's part of why I try to keep the animosity and/or egoes out of these kind of discussions. If a theist can calmly, rationally, convince me to believe in god, I'm all ears. I'd love to have that nice, comfortable, security blanket of God back. Problem is, once it goes through the ears, my brain rejects it.

Open Mind

p.s. Does anyone else have trouble turning off their highlighter once they've turned it on? It's kind of like atheism. I think once you go there, there's no turning back. Cheesy analogy, I know. Couldn't help myself.

35

You Believe in God? Who cares?

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

i think this is a good thread to post feelings about the various evolution/creation and atheism/theism disputes on this discussion board.. i don't really care whether most people believe in god or not.

all i care about is that science keeps doing its job.

most theists are going to contribute almost nothing to the next stage of scientific progress.

Open mind

Hey proplog2:

Nice summary of your progression to the "light". I'm right there with you, except for this part.

I would have preferred spending my life on something other than breaking free from a stupid idea.

If I was absolutely certain that belief in a higher power was just "a stupid idea" I would agree. But, on the off chance that this little speck of dust doesn't quite have it all figured out right, what do you think of the Atheist's Wager? ( It's a more elegant, IMO, variation of Pascal's Wager ). Nvrgnbk posted it a few days ago and I'll requote it here:

You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in God. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him.

Open Mind (of the, I'm so smart I can't figure out how to turn off my highlighter, class)

19

Reasons its a cult...

by Matt_fs in

hey folks,.

was just on the phone with a friend of mine who is a jw, and we were talking about something and then cults came up.

anyways, i wont type our convo, but i remember looking at a post where someone had 14 examples of what defines a cult, i looked high and low and cannot find that list, so im hoping someone has it and can post it for me.

Open mind

You know that's what I don't like about JWD. Someone asks for help and they're just left hanging.
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JUST KIDDING!

Man did you guys ever pile on the info! Here's a tiny bit I can add.

dedpoet said:

You just can't prove to jws that they are in a cult, whatever evidence you produce.

jgnat said:

The best illustration I can think of on how to approach a loved one, is to imagine them as wandering along the edge of a cliff. Would you shout out a warning, lunge to grab her?

I'll restate it this way. If you try to show a JW that they're in a cult, you might as well walk up and say: "Hi! I'm an Apostate! Care to sit down and associate for a while?" It's the dub equivalent of asking a householder, "Would you like to have a Free Home Bible Study?"

So, my $.02........................just give up on trying to pin the word "cult"
on the dubs. It's way too much of a hot button word.

Here's my rough plan to use with my wife someday when the "cult" word comes up.

1. Discuss the definition of the word and show that there really is no consensus on exactly what it means.

Example: The first two definitions of "cult" in my Webster's could easily be pinned on ANY religion. Including Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, etc.

Here's definition #1: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP definition #2 a system of religious beliefs and ritual: also, its body of adherents

I think for most people that doesn't really match up to their own "personal definition" of what a cult means.

So use that as a starting point. I think it might take some of the "scariness" out of the word. You could say, "According to Webster's, ALL religions are cults, even JWs. But most people probably think of really extreme groups like the moonies or Jim Jones when they think of cults. And I don't think the JWs fall into that category..." Then, very carefully, try to go on to look at how much control a church tries to exert over its members. Is it healthy and necessary? Or a little too much?

OTWO said:

I would start not with "It's a cult" but rather "It's a mind-control cult."

OTWO has given me much good advice so far, but I would humbly suggest a slight alteration to his approach. How about this: "I wouldn't say the JWs are a CULT (make sure to stifle your gag reflex) but they do seem to be a little on the High Control side of things, don't you think?"

Then you've set the stage to pick and choose as many of the various cult features that Nvrgnbk and jwfacts have so copiously provided. All the while keeping in mind the sage advice of jgnat with her "cliff illustration":

Rather, you would approach quietly, calmly and reasonably, coaxing her closer to you. That is how to remove her from danger. Keep this in mind always.

Well, that's my plan on paper. I wish you luck with gently persuading your friend.

Open Mind

14

Why can't I say what I really want too when faced with a JW?

by winnie in

jw
friends

about 15 minutes ago, i was in the video shop when i saw a witness i knew from 5 years ago standing next to me.

assuming he was no longer a witness as he was looking at all the porn movies, i start asking him how he's been.

he then insinuates that the only reason i have 5 kids is for the social security payments.... i then come home furious...and yell at my family!.

Open mind

Moshe said:

Maybe you and your husband or a friend could practice a few role playing situations that you could use the next time you encounter JW's.

Excellent idea.

I'm PMing you shortly.

Open Mind

24

BUT I HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED IT......................

by Dansk in

jw
friends

you can go on and on but the fact is you can't prove it!

i only have your word for it that you had your experience.. and the books you cite don't help, either, because i've only got the author's word that he's telling the truth.

how can i believe him if i haven't experienced it myself?.

Open mind

Sure would be nice to roll the clock back so I could have Rachel (Princess) for a mom.

(I love my mom, just not all the boogey man, creativity killing, propaganda stuff)

Open mind

8

Lessons Learned

by RunningMan in

jw
friends

chapter xx: lessons learned.

one year, im guessing i was around ten years old, i returned from the summer district convention with a new word.

i had never heard it before, so a couple of days after returning, i asked my older sister what it meant.. masterbation?

Open mind

LOL @ RunningMan:

"BURPING THE WORM"

Adding yet another masturbatory euphamism to a very, very long list.

Open Mind

44

Love And Marriage Was The Watchtowers Way An Advantage?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

love and marriage was the watchtowers way an advantage?the thought of one man and woman bonded through matrimony was always appealing.

the society used to stress chaperons, however, i think in todays day and age.

however, did the societys way prove helpful in certain respects?.

Open mind

Amen Scully:

That should also apply to Circuit Overseers and District Overseers who don't have kids, but who feel compelled to tell JWs how to raise their children.

In my several decades of observing the bizarre parade of COs and DOs through a few different congregations, I can only recall two COs who had raised families. And, (insert Gomer Pyle voiceover here) SURPRISE!..........SURPRISE!..........SURPRISE! They were the most laid back and reasonable ones (by CO standards that is) I ever met.

Open Mind

35

You Believe in God? Who cares?

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

i think this is a good thread to post feelings about the various evolution/creation and atheism/theism disputes on this discussion board.. i don't really care whether most people believe in god or not.

all i care about is that science keeps doing its job.

most theists are going to contribute almost nothing to the next stage of scientific progress.

Open mind

Garybuss, with his typical economy of words, inserted this quote into a similar discussion a few days ago:

"It is especially important to keep a tactful tongue in our head when living in a divided household."
The Watchtower April 1, 1955

Proplog2: Excellent post. I agree, with one caveat. I don't think either "side" appreciates a "I have the truth and you're somehow mentally deficient" attitude. It's a fine line, which I've been guilty of crossing myself many times. On the one hand, being overly civil stifles healthy debate. On the other, flame-wars that cross the "Ad hominem" line end up obscurring the issues as well.

Theists are in a comfortable hole and it is best for those of us who know better to leave them there and even keep them in ignorance.

IMO, (and it's just MO),............... a little too condescending for the JWD "divided household" we live in. Please don't get me wrong. I loved your post and I share much of your worldview, including a lack of belief in God. I just think there are plenty of very intelligent theists on JWD and it serves no good purpose to alienate them. Hopefuly that wasn't your intent.

Ok, getting down off my "Rodney King" soapbox now.

Open Mind

44

Love And Marriage Was The Watchtowers Way An Advantage?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

love and marriage was the watchtowers way an advantage?the thought of one man and woman bonded through matrimony was always appealing.

the society used to stress chaperons, however, i think in todays day and age.

however, did the societys way prove helpful in certain respects?.

Open mind

Proplog2 & Scully: I agree.

Here's an extra twist that the Wonderful World of Watchtower throws in:

They're all over the place on how to be a good husband.

Here's what I mean. I'd say about 3/4 of the articles promote male dominance and are highly offensive to any woman with two brain cells.

But then, there are articles (usually in the Awake! it seem to me) that the take-away lesson for husbands is: If you have a brain, you better take this whole "headship" thing with a huge grain of salt. Treat her like a queen (or at least a team-mate), respect her, do your share of housework, communicate with her, basically be the kind of husband most women would love to have.

The problem is, the real abusive, control-freaks zero in on the "man is the boss" type of articles and run with them.

Some have commented before that there's a push-and-pull between Service Dept & Writing or at least between hard-liner, chauvinists and more liberal new blood. Just speculating here.

Open Mind

12

I have, indirectly, Terry to thank

by Guest with Questions in

re his post:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132845/1.ashx.

i was trying to find the bible verse that said "help my unbelief" and with my concordance found the following verse: romans 11:25:32. before i quote the scripture i want to relate an experience i had about five years ago.

for about 13 years i went to a christian reformed church.

Open mind

Hey GetBusy:

Your "bad heart condition" was really refreshing to me back when I was a trembling lurker. Nice to see you around again.

Check your In Box.

Open Mind